- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum," President Biden uses bold language to call out MAGA Republicans.

A student debt relief package marks another promise kept, and we'll talk about the treatment of Black women in sports from two recent headlines, including tennis great Serena Williams' evolution away from the sport.

Stay with us.

[upbeat music] ♪ Welcome to "Black Issues Forum," I'm Deborah Holt Noel.

President Joe Biden this week did not hold back, as he called out MAGA Republicans for actions disrupting democracy, and called on Americans to unite against it.

His comments came in two speeches this week, including a prime time address from Independence Hall in Philadelphia on September 1st.

The president said, "MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our Republic," but that not every Republican was a MAGA Republican.

He also pointed to his recent accomplishments from passage of the COVID Economic Recovery Act, gun legislation, the bipartisan infrastructure law, and most recently, the Inflation Reduction Act, as he stated, with applause, quote, "American manufacturing has come alive across the Heartland, and the future will be made in America, no matter what the white supremacists and the extremists say," end quote.

Let's get our panelists thoughts.

I wanna welcome Mary C. Curtis, columnist for "Roll Call," and host of its "Equal Time" podcast.

Harold Eustache, vice chairman of Forsyth County GOP, And Greear Webb, a student at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, and student organizer and co-founder of Young Americans Protest.

I'm excited to have all three of you here.

Mary, I'm opening with you.

What are your takeaways from last night's speech, especially in view of the approaching midterms?

- I believe that he felt he had to meet the moment, President Joe Biden, because we have seen that the threat to democracy has raised up as one of the issues that many people, many Americans are concerned with as we approach the midterms.

Now some would say, "Was he too strong in his language?"

Well, we have seen lately the former president, Donald Trump, actually say that he should be reinstated as president.

We have seen talk of violence, perhaps, with South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham saying that if Trump is, and is prosecuted, and we don't even know what the investigation is going to come to, that there would be riots in the streets by his followers.

We've seen threats against law enforcement, the FBI, and their families.

We have seen poll workers who are the bedrock of our institution.

And my mother was an elections official, a Republican elections official in Maryland, so I am really close to this.

We have seen them threatened and many quit, and we need them.

And so I do believe he felt that this is something that had to be said, particularly since, you know, we are still investigating January 6th.

And so many folks, MAGA Republicans as he said, not all Republicans, 'cause we've seen Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are acting as though, they're calling the folks who were attacking law enforcement, "Patriots," and former president Trump has said he would pardon them if he became the president, and even offer apologies.

So I think he did it in Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia, you know, bedrock of our country, to say, "Americans, who are we?

Do we want to be unified?

Do we want to believe in the rule of law, the rule of democracy, in elections that are free and fair, where the winner is congratulated, and the loser gracefully accepts that?"

So I thought it was a beginning, it was a call.

And I think Americans have to actually think about what he said, and what they think Americans want to be, because we know in the midterms, inflation, all of these things will be issues, but this is bedrock, it's democracy.

- Harold, what were your thoughts?

What did you pull out of it, especially as President Biden was trying to draw that distinction between the majority of Republicans and MAGA Republicans?

- I think just answering the first part of that, you know, Joe Biden, the president, ran on being a uniter.

And I think last night, you know, was a really a low point, I thought, and you know, I wanted to see something different, but it was really a really unfortunate speech.

His sort of picking the nits to say, "Well, there's some Republicans that aren't MAGA Republicans," I think is just, again, unfortunate.

You're talking about maybe 2% of Republicans.

I mean, ultimately what he did was continue the narrative that secretary Hillary Clinton said when she said, "Not only are voters, half the voters in this country, deplorable, but irredeemable."

I mean, he essentially said that everyone that's voting for Donald Trump, not just Donald Trump, but everyone that's voting for him, is a threat to the country.

That's half the country almost.

I mean, you're essentially saying, as the American president, that half of the Americans are a threat to the country.

I think it's a low point, it's unfortunate.

I'm surprised by it, frankly.

I didn't think Joe Biden would go down that road.

- By going down the road, do you mean actually identifying some of the concerns that he has, and that a lot of people have, with what we've been witnessing, what we've been hearing from a sect of the Republican Party, not a large sect, but a rather influential sect?

- I don't have a problem with him attacking Donald Trump.

I mean, Donald Trump's a political opponent.

I don't have a problem with him saying, "Donald Trump is a threat."

I mean, I disagree with him, but if he wants to say that, absolutely in bounds to say that.

But he didn't say that.

He said, "Donald Trump and Republicans are a threat, Maga Republicans," and he tries to make that distinction.

But essentially that is the Republican Party.

I mean, we're talking about 75 million voters, right?

That distinction is not one that makes a lot of sense to me.

- And you don't think- - And again, I think that's the issue there.

- Thank you.

Thank you for that.

Greear, let me pull you in too because you represent a much younger demographic out there and are very much in touch with that population.

What did you pull from the speech?

Do you think that he resonated or connected with young voters, and certainly feel free to weigh in on what Harold said too.

- Sure, well first, thank you so much for having me back on the show, Deborah.

It's a privilege to be here with both Mary and Attorney Eustache.

I think the speech last night, I did tune into that in between watching the William sisters play in probably their last doubles match ever in a Grand Slam.

But I tuned in, I thought it was a good speech.

I thought President Biden did a really good job of appealing to all sex of Americans.

I think he did a good job of appealing to young people, appealing to those that are concerned with, as Mary said, the bedrock of our democracy being threatened.

I would push back a little bit on what Attorney Eustache said, only because I do believe that MAGA Republicans, as President Biden called them, are a threat, and anyone that supports them and does not call out those people are also a threat.

I think that Donald Trump himself is a threat to democracy, and yes, it was, I would venture to say, a political speech, but it was also a speech that capitalized on the wins of the Biden Harris administration so far.

I mean, he talked about the COVID 19 pandemic and coming through that, the relief that's been offered.

Of course, the recently pass Inflation Reduction Act.

Of course we're gonna get into, I'm sure, the student debt loan recovery and relief.

But I think it's important to also realize that President Biden was doing his best to make that distinction.

I know that when Attorney Eustache said MAGA is essentially all Republicans, and that is part of the GOP, I think that's unfortunate because we can see the attacks, as Mary summed up well, on democracy, on people that are there to protect, and defend, and support the citizens that make up this democracy.

And so I think the speech did really hit on the points that President Biden needed to hit on.

I think it is unfortunate that we still have people that are perpetuating violence and that are calling for the overturning of the 2020 election.

I mean, we're basically running for 2024 right now, so we need to look ahead, and I think that's what President Biden was doing.

He was looking to the future.

He was recounting the wins and the victories of his administration's past.

And I think he did a good job of talking about the truth.

I mean, I'll just finish by saying, he was talking about unity, and that is, as Mary said, what he was running on, the red states and the blue states.

And it's important to encapsulate all Americans in this vision for the future.

And so he was uniting around truth, he was uniting around transparency, he was uniting around trust and encouraging America to trust the system that our founders created, to trust the system of participatory democracy.

And if you have an issue with that and if you think that the tone was divisive last night, I'm just not sure that we were watching the same speech.

- Well, I appreciate all of your input and perspectives on the speech.

Very different perspectives, but he definitely came online in a strong way and I think it's uncharacteristic of what we're accustomed to hearing from President Biden, and also from the democratic party.

I do wanna move on to something that has bubbled up in the last couple of weeks and that really adds another layer to the Biden administration's "promises made promises kept" argument.

And that's the recent move to cancel some student debt.

On August 24th he announced his administration will waive student loan debt for qualifying Americans, $10,000 for those earning less than $125,000, plus an additional 10,000 for those who had received Pell Grants.

Mary, what do you think that this really means to voters?

- Well, I think with young voters, which we've seen can be apathetic, it would energize a lot of them, and we've seen their reaction.

Because so many young people are saddled with student debt, loan debt, and they have problems getting a house, making investments, starting a family.

Now, yes, there's been some pushback.

We see some Republican and even some Democrats pushing back.

Does he have this authority?

And there are even some talk about lawsuits.

But then again, he says that, yes, according to the 2003 law that the executive branch has this power.

And I think there's been a lot of things floating out there as far as this is for elites.

Now, one third of the debt is held by folks who do not have a degree.

And even a lot of folks with working class jobs, like my dad had the welders, the trades folks, air conditioner repair, do go to school for this and have loans.

We also see that particularly Black borrowers are really affected because they might not have as much of family wealth to lean on and they have this student debt.

We've seen a lot of enthusiasm for them.

And we also know that this country gives all kinds of help and loan forgiveness to many people if they feel it's going to help the country.

Whether it's the farmer, whether it's a bank, whether it's the auto industry, small businesses- - There's been help for - All of these other people.

- a lot of different groups.

There's been help - Definitely.

- for a lot of different groups, and everybody doesn't belong to every single group.

Harold, what do you think about the fairness of this, but also the fact that it was a promise kept to a certain degree?

- I actually, I agree with Mary, I think that we bail out all sorts of groups in this country.

And to say that the president doing this is out of bounds, I don't think that's true.

I think that the president does have the authority to do this.

I do think that bailing out student loan debt, I think it's sort of a strange bandaid in the sense that it doesn't really fix any of the problems.

The problem is, a new 18 year old going to Morehouse College right now is presented with all the same problems.

Essentially, he's not gonna necessarily be bailed out of his debt, right?

And so the issue is really with the higher education system that we have where the cost of higher education has spiraled out of control and has become, in so many ways, unattainable.

We're talkin' about- - And that's the key.

Yeah.

- A family payin' 40 or $50,000 a year.

I mean, 1%, maybe, of families in the country can really pay that type of money out of their pocket.

- It's that cost.

- It's a system that doesn't work.

And I understand that neither side has a really good solution to this, but I would like to see that tackled by both sides.

I would like to see us really, as a country, tackle that issue.

- I couldn't agree more, the cost of college is just exorbitant and that's really creating the barrier for a lot of people.

This student debt relief is gonna help but it's not gonna get at that initial problem, Greear.

When it comes to what this actually does, how do you think young people are receiving this?

I've heard and read some commentary, well, it's not really a promise kept because you didn't relieve all of the debt but how should younger voters really see this and how much wind do you think it puts behind his back as all of the Democrats head to the elections in November?

- Sure, well, I think I've heard, I've seen the social media threads as well.

You have people on both sides of the issue saying on one extreme that it wasn't enough, on the other extreme that it doesn't need to happen at all.

And that this was not the right way to tackle the issue.

I do think that this is going to hit young voters, particularly where they needed.

I think this is going to be a helpful policy but I do agree with both Mary and Attorney Eustache that it's not enough.

It's in my view like putting a bandaid on a clipped artery.

I mean, when you look at the generational racial wealth gap that we see across the United States and especially here in North Carolina, this isn't going to do a lot to help the most marginalized.

I think that it could be a little more targeted.

I think, as we move forward, of course the amount should be increased, but I think we need to target this as well.

I do want to say though, that this is going to help a lot of families, especially black and brown people.

As Mary mentioned, a lot of folks are saying that well, people that are going to benefit from this are already going to go into high income generating jobs, such as doctors or lawyers, they're eligible for this too.

But think about this, Attorney Eustache knows this well that only 5% of American lawyers are black.

And so when you look at that, starting a family just an inspirational type of argument for a lawyer or a doctor, and then the children of that family becoming lawyers or doctors that contributes to generational wealth, that continues to push this narrative, I think of black people being successful in doing well and caring about their professions and caring about education.

And so I do think that the cost of colleges across our nation is too high, and it really is hamstringing a lot of young folks.

And I think that this policy or this plan by the Biden-Harris administration is one step forward and it is a positive step forward.

But I think we need to continue to run this race and continue to identify ways to close the generational and racial wealth gap that we face across this country and certainly here in North Carolina - Is this decision, Mary, you think by Biden about student debt a recognition of the black voter constituency out there and really understanding what that strength is, creating this decision, or this plan directly addresses one of the major concerns of black voters.

- Definitely, I think it does.

I agree with both of the other guests on the costs of college and what it used to be and now what it is.

And now this is some kind of relief because we've seen if you look at HBCUs, I think the students there have a disproportionate part of the debt because many are sometimes first generation college goers and they don't have all of those savings, and to graduate with this, and particularly if you wanna take a public sector job maybe give back, and we know that some of those jobs are not gonna be the ones to give you all a lot of higher paying jobs.

And so you start off with that load and it also actually affects your choice of profession.

So yes, I think for black and brown voters and young people, this is something that's going to really hit them and affect them.

And it is I think something that the Biden administration had in mind.

- Harold, are there any conversations out there that you've heard that do address the affordability issue?

- Well, I think it goes to the...

It's this circular issue, right?

Because we have student loans that are out there and they're easier to get, and we've made them actually easier to get, the FAFSA's been slimmed down in a lot of ways but all that does is allow colleges to charge whatever they want.

There is this conversation, I think that's been had within our state school system about making it more affordable.

We've seen schools like Fayetteville State have their tuition be very, very low which has really helped that school.

And I think we've seen that across the country of state schools that really can control their cost of attendance, they've made it more affordable for families and not raised the cost of tuition in a way that's that... - And that NC promise plan.

[indistinct] - [Eustache] Yeah.

- That NC promise plan has certainly had its benefits for those who need the lower tuition but then there's an argument about how that's impacting the schools and their ability to bring in enough tuition.

Do you have any thoughts on that Greear?

- I mean, I think just to go back to Attorney Eustache's point quickly, yes, we all know that the cost of college and universities across North Carolina and across the United States generally is too high.

I mean, people just can't afford it.

And so I think that this plan by the Biden-Harris administration is again, one step forward in a positive direction.

I will also say that I am seeing some conversation and dialogue around, well, Biden just presented this as a way to buy the vote of young people, to encourage young people to vote in the midterms in 2022 and encourage young people to get out and vote in 2024.

I don't think that's necessarily the case, to your point, Deborah, there are a lot of young people and a lot of college students, including myself that think that this plan or initiative should have gone further.

But the fact that this administration recognizes that there are generational and racial disparities in wealth creation, I think that's key.

I mean, just this week, the North Carolina Public School System released their school report cards and it showed that while there was still growth and there were silver linings in education amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, there are still racial and geographical disparities that exist in this state and others.

I also wanna mention too briefly that this plan, the student debt relief or recovery plan only applies to Department of Education loans and grants and a few others.

And so I wanna establish that this is not for private or personal loans, and there's also an application process.

So I'd encourage my fellow young people or anyone eligible that application has not opened yet, it will open in October but that will then be due by mid-November.

And so it's important that we are taking the steps to engage and to have these conversations and policies that will really propel a whole generation of Americans forward.

And I think it's important to recognize and realize that this is going to help marginalized people even though I wish it could help us more.

- So be listening out and paying attention and filling those forms out.

- That's right.

- I do wanna get our panel's thoughts on a couple of other news items in the sports world that bubbled up recently.

First, the racial slurs hurled at Duke volleyball players during a game at Brigham Young University that's raised questions about how Black women athletes are seen and protected.

And then on the national scale, we have tennis great Serena Williams at the U.S. Open in New York this past week, along with her sister Venus, fighting for another championship, and noting that the ever-present target is on her back.

And both of these things happening within the same week, kind of moves the question, how are Black women respected and treated in the sports world?

Mary, what are your thoughts about both of these headlines kind of being together in the same week?

Here you've got what's happened to the Duke volleyball team being disrespected on the court, and then Serena Williams talking about the target on her back, but evolving away from tennis.

What are your thoughts?

- Well, it's interesting, because we had a whole show on Serena and her impact when I was filling in guest hosting for Slate's daily "What Next" podcast.

And we saw her evolution as a player, and how she was treated when she and her sister first started playing in a very white sport, with their Black bodies, their beads, their style, their style of play.

We saw how they were not treated well.

And in the Indian Wells case, where they even did not play in that tournament for a while, because of what they met.

And she has really helped that.

We see now she is being cheered and feted, because of what she has done for the sport, and for society.

And when you see young players like Coco Gauff come along, who's gonna be playing, I think, Madison Keys, two Black players playing, and they have said, as well as not only Osaka, Sloane Stephens, and others, that when they were coming up and saw Serena, they said, "This is someone like me."

But then you see Duke, and what's going on with these players, and you see we still have a ways to go.

And they handled themselves so well, and so maturely, and kept playing.

You really felt like the establishment let them down, that Brigham Young and Duke they came and apologized, but it took- - They did.

- A while.

- And in the moment- - And it just seems that, yes, in the moment, it just seems- - In the moment, what happened?

- Yes.

- That's kinda where to go- - And they were still playing.

Yeah, they were playing, and they were praised for keeping their composure.

And what I think is, Black women have to be protected.

Why do they always have to be the bigger person?

One minute, Harold.

Your thoughts on all of this- - I'll just be very quick.

I'll be very quick.

With Serena, especially, she's an incredible person, incredible athlete, and I think it's great to see the conversation around her not just as being one of the best female athletes ever, but one of the very best American athletes we've ever had.

I think she's right up there with the Jordans and the Tom Bradys, and those sorts of people that we put at the top.

So it's an incredible accomplishment.

I love to see Tiger Woods with her as well.

I think that- - What a moment.

- I love Tiger Woods- What a moment.

- To see both of them together.

Two of our great athletes was great, so.

- Yeah.

And that was awesome.

Just to jump in.

I know we've got to go, but I play tennis, still play tennis, growing up, love Serena.

I see her as a role model, not only for myself, but for all Americans, especially those of color.

And as she said, she's just Serena, what can you say?

- Wow.

You both wrapped up so quickly, and yet you have another minute.

[Deborah laughs] But I just think that what I saw of the Duke players, to your point, Mary, indeed reflects their resilience and grace.

And while they are changing the sport, while these Black women are changing the sports that they enter, the question in my mind is how much is society changing?

- I mean, we've got to call this out.

I mean, to your point, just quickly, I'm thinking of this term, forced resiliency.

Our Black women, and Black men, in particular, need to continue to defend and stand up in better ways for Black women.

Forced resiliency.

These women are forced to endure this, and they have to take this, and the mental toll that comes with it, it's unfathomable, and it's ridiculous, and so we've got to be able to call, as a society, racism out, bigotry out, sexism out, and say that for too long, Black Americans in particular have faced this type of violence, whether verbal or physical.

And yes, there are stories of victorious women, like Serena and Venus.

There are stories of those like Tiger Woods, and others who are Black that succeed, but this forced resiliency, it shouldn't be a thing.

Black women and Black people across the athletic realm, and across the United States, should be able to perform, and behave, and be themselves.

They should be able to succeed just because they are good and great at sports, not in the face of sexism, in the face of racism.

- Couldn't agree more.

Greear Webb, thank you so much.

Mary C. Curtis, and Harold Eustache, we appreciate all three of you today.

- I wanna thank all of our guests for joining us today, and we invite you to engage with us on Twitter or Instagram, using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum, or listen at any time on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or Google Podcasts.

For "Black Issues Forum" I'm Deborah Holt Noel.

Thanks for watching.

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